After the end of the Karabakh conflict, President Ilham Aliyev's speeches about the need for West Azerbaijanis to return to their ancestral lands, as well as the establishment of the West Azerbaijan Community in this direction, made the mentioned topic even more relevant.

After the restoration of our territorial integrity, Western Azerbaijan, Western Azerbaijanis, their future fate and historical justice are the main priority issues.

History shows that peoples who were forcibly removed from their lands return to their lands and settle again.

So, that historical period is beginning for both Azerbaijan and Western Azerbaijanis... Taking into account the urgency of the issue, the Chairman of the Milli Majlis Labor and Social Policy Committee, Musa Guliyev (poet Musa Urud-ed.

Musa Urud's interview to APA

- Teacher Musa, today we will talk with you about West Azerbaijan.

Let's start with your memories of your village.

In general, how do you remember the place and when did you leave your village?

- As you know, after the removal of the Armenian invaders from our lands, that is, with the liberation of Karabakh and Eastern Zangezur from occupation, Mr. President Ilham Aliyev set a bigger goal.

This is the opportunity for the people living in the ancient West Azerbaijan lands to return to their ancestral homeland, which is now called Armenia.

This is a great incentive for anyone who has lost their land.

You can see this from the reaction it evokes in the community.

As a person who was born, grew up in the territory of Western Azerbaijan and dedicated a large part of his creativity to this topic, I am happy to be part of this policy and processes.

Until I was 17 years old, I lived in Western Azerbaijan - in the village of Urud, where I was born and raised, in the Garakilsa district of Zangezur.

Seven or eight genealogists of our generation were born in that village, grew up and died there.

The village of Urud was very ancient and at the same time one of the most famous villages of the West Azerbaijan region.

It gained fame as one of the famous kolkhozes during the USSR.

It is no coincidence that he received the "Red Flag" award exactly 11 times.

That is, it was also known as an advanced kolkhoz.

Our village was formed before Christmas.

One of the last fortresses where Babek fought was located in Urud.

During the Seljuk, Ottoman and Safavid eras, it was recognized as a center of disaster.

The madrasa and mosque of the village operated until the Soviet era.

In other words, the existence of a madrasa is an expression of the existence of a culture there.

There were many educated people in the village.

It is no coincidence that Mirza Sadiq Akhundzadeh, one of the two parliament members of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic from Zangezur, was born and raised in the village of Urud.

Then he went to Turkey, where he worked in the path of nationalism and died there.

At the end of 1988 - December 2 was the last day of our village.

Our village was also evacuated, like nearly 300 settlements in the lands of Western Azerbaijan.

And all this, of course, was done by force.

This process lasted about a year and a half.

A few months after national leader Heydar Aliyev left the leadership of the USSR, certain calls and protests began to be made in Karabakh and Khankendi.

At that time, I was working on assignment in Ganja.

Twice I went to the West Azerbaijan region, to our village, and visited my family.

And I saw the difficulties there with my own eyes.

Villages were raided, people were intimidated, they were not allowed to go to the district center, etc.

Buses running between the village and the district center were stopped, or grocery stores could no longer work - that is, there were such difficulties.

In the end, they announced that the school was closed and the collective farm was dissolved.

This process was carried out directly on the basis of the plan of the Armenian SSR.

Thus, on December 2, 1988, the village of Urud was completely evacuated.

You say, how do I remember Urdu?

Actually, I remember our village in 3 ways: firstly, as the village where I was born and grew up and lived for 17 years, and where I saw the events before 1988.

That is, like a quiet, peaceful, comfortable, clean air-water, green village.

As luck would have it, in 2006 I was able to go to the West Azerbaijan region, to our village.

I was participating in an international event in Yerevan.

It so happened that I had a chance to go to our village.

I went, took videos and photos in our village, wrote a book, the book was translated into foreign languages ​​and exhibited in different countries of the world.

On this visit, I saw our village in a different way: because there was no longer any trace of the old Turkish mood in our village.

I wrote this in the book that I am a person who saw the grave of my village.

All graves, including those of my father, grandfather,

the grave of my uncle and all my relatives was destroyed.

True, they did not allow filming in the cemetery, but it was a big shock and pain for me.

I visited our house during that visit.

I had very hard feelings that I wrote about it in my book.

- Speaking of the book, in that book you have a dialogue about the carpet with the Armenian living in your house.

- Yes, it was a very unique event and dialogue.

This is not something that can happen to everyone.

I had a very different feeling there.

Living it is different, it is difficult to write and say.

Our house has always been a guest house.

Armenians were among these guests.

I remember that all the village houses had iron gates.

When Armenians came to our houses, they would call us "Khozeyn, Khozeyn".

Years later, I experienced the same thing again.

I went to our house and went up to the second floor without seeing the Armenian living in the house.

When the video shooting started, the Armenian who went with me started calling the Armenian living in the house "Khozeyn, Khozeyn".

Without depending on me, I thought that they were still calling me.

That is, as a host.

When I went out to the balcony, it suddenly occurred to me that I am no longer the "master" of the house... This is a very heavy feeling.

The Armenian in the dialogue you mentioned once worked as a shoemaker in Baku.

I greeted him, but he didn't receive my greeting.

He was an old man who lost both his eyes and had a tragic life.

It turned out that his son was killed in the battles in Karabakh.

Therefore, he did not receive the greeting in Azerbaijani.

He asked me, who are you and why have you come?

I also said that I am the owner of this house, we are moving towards peace, the war is over.

Governments decide for everyone to return to their place.

I have come to my house, you can go and live in your house in Baku.

He said no, no, I can't go, they will kill me there.

I asked how long you lived in Baku?

He said that I was born there and lived there for 60 years.

- What language did you speak with him?

- In Azerbaijani.

He spoke very well.

I told him that you have not been afraid for 60 years, but why are you afraid now, they will kill you?

He said wait, it was a different time then, now it's different.

In other words, Armenian fraud is visible here as well.

When he left Baku, he took all his belongings with him, but our belongings remained at home.

Even when I was there, I witnessed that Armenians are now using all the household items that we used at that time.

All this shows that the Armenians carried out this betrayal in a planned manner.

We have no preparation for this.

- Teacher Musa, you say that we had no preparation for this plan.

At the beginning of the century, similar deportation processes were carried out from the West Azerbaijan region, and various conflicts took place over time.

After all, why wasn't there any preparation?

- What could be the preparation?

There was a Soviet government, we could not organize.

You live in Armenia, you are an Armenian citizen.

You can't even get armed.

It is not possible.

- Was there fear?

- Let me tell you that no, there was no fear.

In other words, we were brought up in such a way that we did not have any fear.

I remember when I was in the second or third grade, I went from the village to the district center for the first time.

I was alone, I was going to buy myself a notebook and a pencil.

On the way back, an Armenian on the bus put his hands on my shoulders and asked: "Hayes, Turkish?"

I will admit that I heard the word Turkish for the first time from an Armenian.

This is a tragedy for us.

I didn't answer him.

Because I did not understand the meaning of the word.

The next morning, the teacher asked us how to spend our Sunday.

I also talked about what happened to me.

The teacher told me that you would say that I am neither Hayat nor Turk.

I am Azerbaijani.

He explained that hay means Armenian.

I told this incident to my grandfather at home, and I also told what my teacher said.

My grandfather was very angry at the teacher's words, he slammed his pipe on the ground and said that your teacher is making trouble, you should have said that I am a Turk.

After this incident, my grandfather began to tell me about Nuru Pasha and Turks in general.

In 1918, he told the people of our village about the game played by Andranik, the destruction and looting of 115 Azerbaijani villages of Sisian region.

We later investigated and read that 50,000 Azerbaijanis were expelled from there on those eves, and more than 10,000 people were killed.

That is, we learned about them after the period of independence.

At that time, for some reason, our grandfathers were afraid to tell us about them.

That is, if someone says that we have been Turkic and nationalist since the Soviet era, I do not agree, because I have not seen it.

In this regard, the presence of preparation does not sound a bit realistic.

However, some wise people stopped building luxurious houses after the 70s, they said that it would be left to Armenians anyway.

But I guess it seems we were meant to live in these days when

- What was the attitude towards the Azerbaijani language in schools?

- There was no problem.

We spent all our lessons in schools in the Azerbaijani language.

I graduated in 1978, and I was the last gold medalist.

Until now, we did not have the Armenian language.

Since the 80s, the Armenian language has also been taught.

In the period before us, everything was good, our teachers were educated, and the level of our classes was high.

Every year, half of the high school graduates in our village entered higher education.

- Mr. Musa, what was the relationship with the Armenians in the village?

Was it peaceful or were there conflicts?

- Armenians did not live in our village.

He never lived.

But the neighboring village of Vaghadi was a mixed village.

Until 1918, only Azerbaijanis lived there.

In 1918, Azerbaijanis were expelled from there, they were able to return somewhere after 5 years.

And at that time, Armenians had already settled there.

In general, there were 115 Azerbaijani villages in the Sisian region of West Azerbaijan until 1918, only 11 of them returned later.

The rest of the villages were either destroyed or Armenianized.

This process was also carried out in other regions of Zangezur - Gafan, Gorus, Mehrid.

There was no visible hostility between Armenians and Azerbaijanis in mixed villages.

Frankly, I did not feel that they were looking down on us.

Maybe there were some differences at the government level, but I didn't feel it among the population.

- There was also a process of changing the names of villages in the Western Azerbaijan region.

Was the name of your village changed?

- Yes, this process started in the 60s, and in 1968 it became very widespread.

You know, in the territory of Western Azerbaijan, the change of our toponyms took place in several stages: first at the end of the 20s of the last century, then in the 40s, in 68, and finally in the 90s.

Changing the names of the villages, uniting West Azerbaijani villages with Armenian villages under the name of nationalization of collective farms and appointing their leaders from Armenians, as we said, started in the 60s.

For example, they united 3 Azerbaijani villages into one Armenian village, and appointed an Armenian as its leader.

Our village was merged with the neighboring village in 1961, but later the community protested and left.

The name of the village remained Urud.

They changed its name to Vorotan in 1968, but the villagers did not accept it.

Bazarchay flowed through our village, this river passes through the entire territory of Sisian and Gorus districts.

They named Bazarchay Vorotan, so the name of our village was also changed.

Also, the village of Shahverdili in Gorus was named Vorotan in the same way.

But the name of the collective farm was kept as it was.

Because it was determined by the village community.

When I returned to our village in 2006, when the Armenians asked where I was from, I said that I was from Urud.

- How did the people there treat you during your visit in 2006?

- I saw a normal attitude.

At that time, Kocharyan was in power and a game called "People's diplomacy" was launched.

They convinced themselves and the people that the status quo will not change and that we will come to terms with it.

Therefore, there will be commuting.

A deputy from Yerevan accompanied me along the way.

If you remember, our journalists also visited there.

Our intellectuals from Karabakh were also taken there.

That is, there was a clear intention in the middle, but it was not fulfilled.

During my trip in 2012, I was not even allowed to leave the hotel in Yerevan.

The situation had changed, moreover, by then the book about my first trip had already been printed and distributed.

- Teacher Musa, in the lands of West Azerbaijan, in the villages where the population is mixed, were there any processes like buying and giving girls to Armenians?

- I am someone who has deeply studied the region of Western Azerbaijan, especially Zangezur.

The result of the research is that during the 70 years that Armenia was part of the USSR - I mean the years 1920-1988 - a total of 40 Azerbaijanis married Armenian women.

And not a single Azerbaijani woman married an Armenian.

Although there were villages that lived in each other, there were even kinship relations between them, but, as I said, not a single Azerbaijani woman married an Armenian.

Perhaps, the nation did not want to add its blood to that nation's blood.

- Maybe we should close it with the request of Islam?

- I don't believe it.

Because during the Soviet era, religion did not have such a big role.

There was ethnic cleansing in 1918, and when we returned to West Azerbaijan in 1922, they did not let us restore the mosques.

For example, there was almost no mosque in Zangezur.

In other words, there was no deep religious belief at that time.

It was a national issue.

If someone from any village marries an Armenian or buys a girl from there, that person would almost be kicked out of the village.

About 40 marriages belonged only to those mixed villages in the district centers.

I even searched for their names.

- We are talking about completely calm, conflict-free times.

At that time, were there cases of domestic conflicts between Armenian and Azerbaijani families leading to national conflicts in the lands of Western Azerbaijan?

- Yes, it was.

We ourselves have fought with Armenians several times.

When we used to play football, fights would get so big that even families and the government would get involved in these conflicts.

I remember, at the end of the 70s, an Azerbaijani boy accidentally fired a rifle in his hand during the Nowruz holiday, and an Armenian died.

This was not intentional.

But that family had to move from the village, if I'm not mistaken, they settled in Saray settlement of Absheron.

Because the blood feud could deepen.

- Teacher Musa, IDPs from Karabakh were given a number of privileges and assistance by the government.

However, such privileges and concessions were not applied to those expelled from the West Azerbaijan region, from their ancestral lands.

Can a bill on this be prepared in the spring session?

- Of course, there may be such proposals, as well as changes to the legislation.

At the same time, the law on the status of refugees and internally displaced persons can be revised.

But I think that all this should not be the main goal.

Our main goal is to return.

As Mr. President said, the concept should be developed.

In other words, I do not consider it appropriate to make decisions that increase the social burden of the state again.

I say again, the main thing is the organization of those people - this process is already being carried out around the community - and the goal is the issue of returning to the lands of Western Azerbaijan.

At the same time, in parallel, it is necessary to convey this to the world community.

We must save the power of the state for the improvement and reconstruction works that will be done if we return to the territory of Western Azerbaijan.

Because the Armenians will not do this for us.

From that point of view, today I don't see talking about any benefits and privileges as a serious social order.

- Azerbaijanis from West Azerbaijan settled not only in Azerbaijan, but also in former post-Soviet countries neighboring Azerbaijan.

Their statistics are not available.

What mechanism can be used to conduct statistics of people from the territory of West Azerbaijan who settled in the post-Soviet space and neighboring countries?

Can the Milli Majlis participate in this case?

- Of course.

You know that great work is going on in the West Azerbaijan Community, various groups and commissions are being created.

We must first answer certain questions: Who is the West Azerbaijani?

To whom should this name apply?

Who should return to the territory of Western Azerbaijan, etc.

Since the beginning of the century, the process of deportation from the West Azerbaijan region has been carried out 4 times.

In peaceful times, deportations continued in secret form.

For example, Azerbaijanis who came to Baku for higher education could not return there later, because conditions were not created for them to return.

I am one of them: there was a 25-bed hospital in our village, but I was not given the opportunity to work there.

They said, it is pointless to work in the territory of Western Azerbaijan, go to Azerbaijan.

They only hired teachers, which was compulsory.

And partly agricultural workers.

The rest of the cadres were suppressed.

As I said, first of all, answers to such questions should be found.

For example, it may happen that someone wants to return to his grandfather's home.

There is this right, but questions such as how this right should be implemented should be considered and steps should be taken in this direction.

And at the same time, if there are people living outside of Azerbaijan, they should also be investigated in the form related to diasporas and embassies.

I believe that all these matters will be resolved in time.

As Mr. President said, a wide electronic platform will be created.

This platform will also have a significant contribution to the mentioned process.

Again, we want the return of the people and families deported in 1988, and at the same time,

We must focus on the return of families and their subsequent generations who were forcibly relocated by the decision of the Soviet government in 1948-1953.

Because during the USSR, there were unjust government decisions against several peoples: Chechens and Ingush, Crimean Tatars, Meshati Turks, etc.

At the end of the USSR government, they returned acquitted and also received compensation.

But this did not apply to Azerbaijanis, while 10,000 people were relocated from the West Azerbaijan region.

Allegedly, because there is a lack of labor force in the Mil-Mugan plain, the population should be moved there.

And Armenians from abroad want to come to Armenia.

It was completely pointless.

What is the need to forcibly relocate the population to develop cotton cultivation in the Mil-Mugan plain?

If those people were still people living in the mountainous area...

That's why most of those people got sick and died.

It was a kind of genocide as well.

A small number of Armenians came to Armenia from Syria and Iran, and they saw that there were no such conditions.

Hunger and misery are happening.

As a result, they all returned and left.

I will tell you one thing that until now, the literature and history related to West Azerbaijan, West Azerbaijan culture have come to the fore.

After that, diplomacy and political law should come to the fore.

Until today, we have written, we have added stale words, we have expressed it with words.

But after that, the process should be continued in a different way.

In the world, the 4T principle is applied to the issue of deportation: Recognize, Publicize, Compensation, Land.

First, you know, we have already passed this stage.

We must now start the second phase.

For this, diplomacy and law are important.

At this stage, as I said, there is no longer a need for poets and songwriters.

From that point of view, we should mobilize more young people who know foreign languages ​​and are aware of our history around the Western Azerbaijan Community.

And the propaganda should start in those countries that either have a native attitude towards us or are loyal to us.

For example, it is irrelevant that this propaganda is carried out in France today.

We should bring this issue to the world community, starting with the Non-Aligned Movement, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, the Union of Turkic States, and the CIS countries.

- The head of state said that a working group has already been formed regarding the return of those from the lands of Western Azerbaijan.

Do you have any suggestions for the Working Group?

- In fact, what I have listed is also a part of these proposals.

This working group is for concept development.

As Mr. President said, we should all be West Azerbaijanis from today.

In other words, returning there is a national issue.

The return to the lands of Western Azerbaijan is a matter of historical statehood.

And this is not only a problem of Western Azerbaijanis.

Just as we were all united and mobilized for 30 years, we must show the same unity in this issue.

- Chairman of the Armenian Parliament, Alen Simonyan, recently stated during his speech that it is not realistic for those from the lands of West Azerbaijan to return to those territories.

Even so, it may be possible on one condition that the Armenians return to Baku and Sumgayit.

- This is not a new conversation.

At the beginning of 2000, Armenians created an organization called Association of Armenians of Azerbaijan.

And that organization is an organization that has already done its work in the world.

But these things will depend on the process.

Our claim is not to evict the Armenian family living there.

If the Armenians have the idea to return, if they find an empty place somewhere, they can come and settle.

If Armenians live in a compact form in Karabakh, Azerbaijanis also have the right to live in a compact form in the territory of Western Azerbaijan.

If Armenians will make a claim to live anywhere in Azerbaijan, we will consider it, if the claim is accepted, we will also make that claim.

But I don't think it is realistic that an Armenian would come here and evict someone from their home and live here, or an Azerbaijani would go and evict someone from their home in Yerevan.

When I was there in 2006, I saw that 90 percent of the Azerbaijani villages along the road were uninhabited.

Including, in the village of Urud, where I was born, there were only 40 houses with 120 houses, most of them old people.

If my father's and grandfather's house is empty now, I can go and live there.

Therefore, I think that we should think about it in our concept.

- Finally, let's talk a little about the West Azerbaijan Community and its activities.

A few days ago, the West Azerbaijan Community made a demand to the Armenian government.

- There will be many such demands.

This is just the beginning.

This is also a request addressed to the UN that we have the right to return.

The Armenian government should respond adequately to this.

If we are not allowed to return, a reason must be given.

As Mr. President said, we want to do it peacefully.

If the Armenians do not provide this, then they will have demonstrated their hostile attitude once again.

They should think that it is impossible to live in hostile relations in the region for such a long time.

All wars end in peace.

The Karabakh issue has already ended peacefully, and the great peace will probably be realized within this year.

Armenians recognized Azerbaijan's sovereignty in their declarations in Prague.

The next step will be the opening of communications, the establishment of relations, the beginning of cooperation.

Photo Ilkin Nabiyev © APA group