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Why should Belarus be recognized as an occupied territory

— During a meeting with Belarusians last week, the President of Poland Andrzej Duda publicly stated that Belarus is under Russian occupation... Later I spoke with the Polish President, and he said that he might raise this issue in Davos.

But even if it is not raised, the fact remains that it was announced in a public address by the President of Poland.

This was already heard from the Secretary of the National Security Council of Ukraine Danilov, from the office of President Zelensky, deputies of the Verkhovna Rada, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Lithuania Landsbergis, who also announced the partial occupation of Belarus.

From the point of view of foreign policy, these are very important political statements that prepare the ground.

Belarus is an occupied territory, Lukashenka is illegitimate, he kept power only thanks to the help of the occupier, the president of Russia.

Russian troops enter the territory of Belarus and do what they consider necessary, violating the Constitution of Belarus and bilateral agreements between Belarus and Ukraine.

Now, once again, the threat of using force against Ukraine is being created.

Lukashenko fulfills the will not of the Belarusian people, but of the Russian occupier.

We believe that Ukraine will win.

There will be peace talks.

Who will conduct the negotiations if Lukashenka is in power by this time?

Functionally, most likely he will be invited in some way.

Whether to accept the need for him to be in these negotiations.

Who will represent the voice of Belarusians?

We do not have an exclusive right, but we created the United Cabinet in order to speak not on behalf of Svetlana Tsikhanovskaya, Pavlo Latushka, Valer Kovalevsky or my other colleagues in the cabinet, but on behalf of Belarusians.

What will Ukraine put as the main issue during the peace talks?

Demilitarization of neighboring territories.

First of all, the main point will be Belarus.

Russian troops are on the territory of Belarus.

Potentially, this is a peaceful way to liberate Belarus.

The international community will have to invite us to these negotiations.

If we have our military structures in Ukraine, if we have a strong internal protest plan "Victory", if it develops, if we have strength and international recognition, we will be at this negotiating table too.

And we will seek the withdrawal of Russian troops... And the second step is new, early elections.

This is a peaceful way.

If we fail to implement it, then we have another scenario, but it is risky.

About ways to release political prisoners

- It hurts me a lot.

My cousin Anatol Latushka is a political prisoner, sentenced to 6 years in prison.

They put a cellophane bag on his head and beat him hard.

His wife, a police prisoner, received two and a half years of "chemistry".

I cannot be indifferent to this question.

Many people I know personally are now in prisons.

I recently had a meeting with the US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights.

I asked what are the tools and means that we could use for the sake of police prisoners.

She replied that there are no universal means.

They do not exist.

There can only be individual funds.

And such individual steps are taken.

For example, the case of Natalie Hershey.

There were talks about more serious steps.

I am not talking about dozens of those who could potentially be released, but about a few people.

And Lukashenka did not keep his word.

Never kept my word...

Lukashenka has not yet forgiven anyone.... He will take revenge for 2020.

He hasn't even stopped yet.

If we talk about freeing one person, tomorrow he imprisons two, three, ten.

We can come to an agreement and release a few... God forbid... sick people, maybe minors... And tomorrow he will imprison the next ones.

The situation is unprecedented, it cannot be compared with what was before.

I remember these conversations about sanctions and police prisoners.

Then there were 5-6 police prisoners.

I agree with Andrey Sannikov that only strong sanctions and strong pressure can force this brutal government to change its approach and begin to release political prisoners at least one by one.

Not all tools have been used yet.

The instruments of criminal responsibility of Lukashenka and his associates have not yet been used.

I am fighting for this, criticizing European partners in different countries for this.

In a recent meeting with representatives of the human rights bureau of the US State Department, I also said that this should be one of the elements of the strategy - to show that they will have the same fate as Milosevic, that they will be under the tribunal.

Lukashenko is not ready and will not be ready to release everyone.

Let's get this straight.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for everyone.

And this work is in progress...

About the death and role of Vladimir Makei

- Since 2020, we do not have a Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Whether Mackay was in that position or someone else would be, we don't have a foreign policy.

Foreign policy is focused on only one vector - Russian... Lukashenka does everything that is important for the interests of the Russian Federation.

Belarusianness, Belarusian language, Belarusian culture, consciousness, names are being destroyed...

I am rather inclined to think that Mackay died of natural causes.

But suicide can also be considered as one of the options.

Mackay was under very strong psychological pressure.

His role in the government was actually close to zero.

He was told that if another package of sanctions was introduced, he would lose his position.

And the preparation of his replacement has already begun.

I am convinced that he had a conversation with Lukashenko in Yerevan, which ended very badly for him.

Lukashenka did not offer him anything... His career is over.

This fatality of the situation led to what happened.

Was there any Russian trace there, as is often said?

I don't think so, but I can give some percentage on it.

Let's look at the results of the Bellingcat investigation.

But this is the last thing that Putin needs today.

He does not need to destabilize Lukashenka today... Whoever becomes the new minister of foreign affairs (we know all the candidates) will all be soldiers.

Mackay was such a soldier.

Yes, he was more committed to Belarusianness, to culture.

He had that, but that doesn't excuse him being actually responsible for the 2020 crackdown.

I remember that when I was the Minister of Culture and talked to Prolyaskovskii (former Minister of Information - RS), I said: it seems to me that this will be some breath of Europeanism in our government.

Even Myasnikovich said then that we have the only pro-European minister in the government.

I don't know whether it was a positive mark or, on the contrary, humiliation, but there was such a hope.

Who was responsible for the Square in 2010?

Makey.

How many people were detained... Including my brother, who is no longer alive, unfortunately... Hundreds of detainees, Nyaklyaev was beaten, Sannikov was beaten... Makei was responsible for this.

Forgot about it?

After 2020, Mackay said civil society would be destroyed if "you don't end the sanctions."

And he did it.

And what to say now?

That he was taking some cover to Lodz for the OSCE summit?

Did not carry.

The cover was empty.

Diplomatic sources tell me that there were talks about some small steps.

And I got the impression that he was even afraid to convey this to Lukashenka.

On the introduction of the death penalty for civil servants and military personnel for "treason against the state"

- This is a reaction, including, to the activities of the Cabinet and all those who work for change in Belarus.

He introduces the death penalty for military personnel.

There are units of volunteers on the territory of Ukraine.

These are the heroes of Belarus who fight for a free Ukraine and dream of liberating Belarus.

The representative of the Cabinet in matters of national defense and security, Valer Sahashzyk, is also engaged in military construction on the territory of Ukraine.

It's also a pretty specific process.

Lukashenko understands that the army, like society, is not inclined to war in Ukraine.

We have quite active communication with the military, and this clip shows that the military does not want to go to war.

If a trigger situation happens, if Lukashenka fulfills Putin's order to send Belarusian and Russian troops to Ukraine, what will the Belarusian military do?

Special operations forces, unfortunately, will rather carry out the order.

And others?

Question.

Will they lay down their arms or go over to the side of Ukraine?

Will they then move to our structures in Ukraine?

He is afraid of it.

That is why the threat of capital punishment arose, because there is no smoke without fire.

There is fire inside, so there may be smoke.

Regarding public servants.

We know that today they are functionally loyal to Lukashenka.

They do what they are told but do not initiate anything.

The system goes to a dead end in advance, because these are unmotivated people.

And they will be the last to switch to the side of the Belarusian people... He is also afraid of communication with our program "Personnel for a new Belarus", which included civil servants from Belarus.

This immediately scared them, so they introduce the death penalty for government officials.

Lukashenko is afraid of a split within, because he knows better than anyone the real state of the situation in Belarus.

Better than the cabinet, better than our democratic leaders, better than our independent media.

And that's why he reacts like that.

About his trial in absentia in Belarus

- As for sentences in absentia.

I signed an open letter to the so-called Prosecutor General and the so-called Chairman of the Investigative Committee.

I proceed from the functionality of these positions.

I wrote that I refuse the lawyer appointed to me in accordance with the Code of Criminal Procedure.

I am a lawyer.

I did not sign any contract with the lawyer, I am not familiar with him and do not know the case materials.

No one introduced me to the indictment.

I do not need such a lawyer, I am ready to take part in the legal process myself.

Of course, through zoom — so that there are no illusions that I will go to Belarus.

About the work of the Joint Transitional Cabinet

- This is a new structure.

And let's approach it as a structure that does not have a formed apparatus.

As a former member of the government, I understand the management structure of such institutions.

The key element is the creation of a communication apparatus between representatives, when documents are being prepared, when documents are submitted for consideration, adopted, later decisions are implemented and their implementation is monitored.

It exists in all governments of the world.

Therefore, maybe there is insufficient communication with Svetlana Tikhanovskaya's office.

We would like closer communication in all matters so that we coordinate...

It's a process.

It takes time.

It's hard.

I understand that the criticism is absolutely justified.

As for the representative in social issues, there is a candidate.

I hope that there will be a conversation with the candidate at the cabinet meeting in the near future.

This is a woman.

I hope that it will be fruitful.

What is the worst that can happen in 2023

- Participation of Belarus in the war against Ukraine.

If this happens, it will be terrible not only for 2023, but also for the history of Belarus.

Belarusians have never attacked anyone, had no conflicts with Ukraine.

This is the dirt, the "black" stain that will remain on the conscience of the Belarusian nation for decades and centuries.

I don't know how we will look Ukrainians in the eyes later.

It is difficult for us to explain to them even now.

If this happens, it will be a disaster and a great tragedy.

Therefore, we do everything to prevent this from happening.

Lukashenka initiated three wars - against Ukraine, against Europe (migration crisis), against the Belarusian people.

We must stop Lukashenka until he follows Putin's orders and sends troops...

What is the most important thing that can happen in Belarus in 2023

— I recently met with a very influential Western diplomat who told me very frankly that in 2023 (maybe 2024) tectonic changes will take place.

They will happen.

It is said that politicians promise something and are later criticized for what they promise.

A politician should be an optimist.

If I am not an optimist, what should I do?

I am a sincere optimist.

I believe and I work for this belief.

What is the United Transitional Cabinet of Belarus

At the "New Belarus" conference in Vilnius on August 9-10,

announced the creation of the United Transitional Cabinet, which will work on the main goals:

• Protect the independence and sovereignty of the Republic of Belarus, represent the national interests of Belarus.

  Carry out the actual de-occupation of Belarus.

• Restore constitutional law and order.

• Develop and implement measures to stop the illegal hold on power, ensure the transition of power from dictatorship to democracy, create conditions for holding fair and free elections.

• Develop and implement decisions necessary to achieve democratic changes in Belarus.

• And as a result, all political prisoners should be released.

Among others, the following work in the Cabinet under the leadership of Tsikhanovskaya:

• Paval Latushka

  is a representative of the Cabinet for Power Transition;

• Aleksandar Azarov

  — on restoring law and order;

• Valery Kovalevsky

  — for foreign affairs;

• Valer Sahashzyk

  — for defense and national security;

• Alina Kovshik

  is a representative for national revival.

The joint transitional cabinet of Tsikhanovskaya announced that it is starting to prepare Belarusians for the launch of the "Victory" plan.

The joint transitional cabinet demands and will achieve the unconditional withdrawal of the armed forces of the Russian Federation from the territory of Belarus.

The United Transitional Cabinet established the Mission of Democratic Belarus in Brussels and sent its representative to Kyiv.

• Anna Sous

  Journalist of Radio Svaboda

  Editor of the "Only women" community on Facebook 

  sousa@rferl.org

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